Earlier in the week, I listed the all-time top seven Tigers hitters by the WAR statistic. However, that also included playing time with other teams which confused a couple of readers. So, I purchased Sean Smith's WAR database and pulled player statistics only for their time with the Tigers. The top 20 are included in Table 1.
There are no surprises at the top of the list with Ty Cobb way out in front followed by Al Kaline, Charlie Gehringer, Lou Whitaker, Alan Trammell, Harry Heilmann and Sam Crawford. The biggest surprise on the list for some readers may be 12th ranked Donie Bush who played mostly shortstop for the Tigers from 1908-1923. He wasn't a great hitter, just 15 runs above average lifetime. He was also 39 fielding runs below average according to the adjusted range factor statistic used prior to 1956. He made the list largely because he was a shortstop (119 position runs) who played for a long time (261 replacement runs).
I'll be doing a lot more with this database for the Tigers and other teams throughout the off-season.
Table 1: Top Twenty Tigers Position Players by WAR
Rank | Player | WAR |
1 | Ty Cobb | 153.7 |
2 | Al Kaline | 91.0 |
3 | Charlie Gehringer | 80.9 |
4 | Lou Whitaker | 69.7 |
5 | Alan Trammell | 66.9 |
6 | Harry Heilmann | 65.7 |
7 | Sam Crawford | 64.8 |
8 | Hank Greenberg | 53.7 |
9 | Norm Cash | 52.5 |
10 | Bill Freehan | 43.3 |
11 | Bobby Veach | 42.2 |
12 | Donie Bush | 36.7 |
13 | Dick McAuliffe | 35.3 |
14 | Chet Lemon | 27.6 |
15 | Lance Parrish | 27.5 |
16 | Rudy York | 26.6 |
17 | Travis Fryman | 26.5 |
18 | Kirk Gibson | 25.6 |
19 | Willie Horton | 25.0 |
20 | Tony Phillips | 24.6 |
Where do you think Miggy will end up on that list?
ReplyDeleteIt will depend on his longevity. He won't get a lot of fielding points as a first baseman so he'll have to be an elite hitter for a really long time to get a lot of wins. If he hits the way he did this year for the remainder of his contract, he'll be in Freehan/Veach territory by 2015. If he remains a Tiger for the rest of his career (doubtful the way players move around now) and plays until about 38, he could reach the top 5.
ReplyDeleteHow'd you do this, Lee?
ReplyDeleteMike, I did it in SAS. I do SAS for a living so this kind of thing is fairly easy for me. I can send you an excel file with career WAR for just the Tigers if you want.
ReplyDeleteLee
SAS is a database program, right? Like SQL? Interesting. Is SAS a free program? If not, how much does it cost and how easy is it for someone with no database experience to get an understanding of?
ReplyDeleteI kind of would like to do it on my own, but I haven't found any motivation to use MySQL and learn it (plus my free trial of SQLyog has ended).
I'll mull it over, thanks.
Mike, SAS is a statistical package that also works well with databases. It's very expensive and I would never buy it myself (thankfully, the school where I work pays for it).
ReplyDeleteGibson being so high is the only surprise. Glad to see Lou so high because I think he's undervalued. Naturally he and Tram are side by side.
ReplyDeleteAhh, gotcha Lee. Interesting. I feel like I'm interested enough to want to learn a database program (it would help with PITCHf/x stuff, too), but not quite interested enough into forcing myself how to learn it.
ReplyDeleteGood list though, Lee.
Greenberg isn't higher. Sure, the 30's were great for hitters but his numbers were outrageous.
ReplyDeleteSurprised Greenberg isn't higher that is
ReplyDeleteI'm a little disappointed to see my all-time favorite ranking 19th behind such ersatz luminaries as Donie Bush and Travis Freaking Fryman. He's still my favorite all-time player, though.
ReplyDeleteInteresting how Mickey Cochrane shows up nowhere on the list. I know he clocked only two full seasons worth of at bats for the team over four years, but his legend looms so far over the team's history, it's a little jarring to see him not show up on a top 20 list of this type.
Longevity counts for a lot with the WAR statistic. That's why a hitter like Greenberg doesn't rank higher. I wish they also had WAR per 600 PA or something like that. it's a little tricky because you are also adding in fielding runs which are based on innings rather than PA. I'll try to come up with something crude when I get a chance.
ReplyDeleteLee
I just looked at war per 600 PA and the new order is:
ReplyDeleteCobb
Greenberg
Cochrane
Heilmann
gehringer
Kaline
Phillips
crawford
cullenbine
Granderson (through 2008)
Trammell
Whitaker