Comments on Tiger Tales: A Detroit Tigers Blog: Ranking the third basemen - 2007

Otis -- that's correct, but you're not using an "a...

2008-01-19T11:34:00.000-05:00

Otis -- that's correct, but you're not using an "above replacement" figure. Straight runs created just divides up all of the runs scored by a team between its contributors. Even replacement-level hitters will accumulate 50 or so runs created over a full season. That is, a team full of replacement-level hitters will still score like 450 runs (numbers for example, only.) You need to subtract

Yeah, that was the point. The McCoven have convinc...

2008-01-18T20:05:00.000-05:00

Yeah, that was the point. The McCoven have convinced me that it's okay to combine an "Above Average" analysis with an "Above Replacement" analysis if you are just adding them together, though.

Otis -- using straight runs created is problematic...

2008-01-18T16:06:00.000-05:00

Otis -- using straight runs created is problematic because you're not using a replacement level.

GiantsRainman -- can you give me a link to your use of these numbers at McCovey?

BPro's VORP numbers don't use very good positional adjustments, but they're probably the best you'll find publicly. Their problem is that they adjust positions based on average offensive performance at

Wow, Cabrera is not looking so great on this list....

2008-01-15T10:37:00.000-05:00

Wow, Cabrera is not looking so great on this list. This is another indication that he needs to improve his defense.

Otis,My mistake. I misunderstood your labels and ...

2008-01-15T00:38:00.000-05:00

Otis,

My mistake. I misunderstood your labels and thought you had not made this adjustment. Thanks again!

I didn't research it that closely, but 650 at bats...

2008-01-15T00:28:00.000-05:00

I didn't research it that closely, but 650 at bats should be close to 150 games, and I used 650 at bats as my "season."

Otis,Thanks! But why didn't you add RC per 150 ga...

2008-01-15T00:20:00.000-05:00

Otis,

Thanks! But why didn't you add RC per 150 games to ARS which is also per 150 games. Would this not make the list more accurate measurement of the comparitive value of the thirdbasemen. You are actually just repeating the mistake I made when I used VOPP instead of VORP adjusted to 150 games in my original list.

I did some quick Visual basic work and managed to ...

2008-01-15T00:12:00.000-05:00

I did some quick Visual basic work and managed to get a quick and dirty measure of both defense and offense. I used Runs Created as listed at the hardball times.

http://www.crumpled.com/brackish/3bsheet.xls

Lee,It made a small difference with a few of the p...

2008-01-14T23:59:00.000-05:00

Lee,

It made a small difference with a few of the players changing where they were on the list. Only Braun significantly improved his positon on the list and nobody really significantly lowered their position on the list. None the less I think the change did make a necessary correction and Braun's value was indeed understanted before this correction.

Otis, you are correct and it came up before (on Ra...

2008-01-14T23:50:00.000-05:00

Otis, you are correct and it came up before (on Rainman's blog). I think he's looking for something quick and dirty though and it's hard to find RCAA for all the players. Plus, he's only looking at one position so I think it's ok to do what he's doing. If he was comparing players at different positions, it would be more problematic.

hmm. to really have it make sense you would need t...

2008-01-14T23:25:00.000-05:00

hmm. to really have it make sense you would need to use an offensive stat that doesn't give a value over replacement, like say Bill James's Runs Created or David Smith's Base Runs. I'm not sure if these defensive metrics are adjusted for situation, but the second of those is.

rainman, that one makes more sense. Does it chang...

2008-01-14T23:09:00.000-05:00

rainman, that one makes more sense. Does it change the results much?

Thanks for the good work and for visiting my use o...

2008-01-14T23:06:00.000-05:00

Thanks for the good work and for visiting my use of your work on McCovey Chronicles. I have modified it to replace pure VORP with VORP adjusted to 150 games as your defensive averages are. I wondered what you thought of this adjustment.

That's not bad. Perhaps defensive metrics have mor...

2008-01-14T22:47:00.000-05:00

That's not bad. Perhaps defensive metrics have more reliability thant their reputations would you to believe.

Otis, the correlations are moderately high. Most ...

2008-01-14T22:40:00.000-05:00

Otis, the correlations are moderately high. Most of them are between .5 and .6. The highest one was between the two STATS based systems: UZR and ZR (.8).

The correlations between the fan survey and the measures was in the .40s for the most part which isn't too bad for a subjective survey.

Lee

I'm curious. Have you done correlations between th...

2008-01-14T22:14:00.000-05:00

I'm curious. Have you done correlations between the different fielding measures? Are they well correlated with each other?

While I wasn't optimistic, I was hoping the upgrad...

2008-01-14T18:54:00.000-05:00

While I wasn't optimistic, I was hoping the upgrade from Guillen to Renteria would cover more of the gap between Cabrera and Inge than it did.

Between the two, the Tigers are still giving up 25 runs on defense. Hopefully, Cabrera will be a little better than last year and having Jones in left and Guillen at first will make up some of that ground.

Currently living in milwaukee and can say that Bra...

2008-01-14T15:10:00.000-05:00

Currently living in milwaukee and can say that Braun surely does deserve his place as worst 3rd baseman. The word however is that he will be moved to the outfield next season.