tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17907776.post5693618161937608102..comments2024-01-08T14:50:08.705-05:00Comments on Tiger Tales: A Detroit Tigers Blog: Bonderman and big inningsLee Panashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17148118898954670307noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17907776.post-17991053655791017842008-03-11T14:30:00.000-04:002008-03-11T14:30:00.000-04:00Scot, yes the data do show that Bonderman had a bi...Scot, yes the data do show that Bonderman had a big problem in the first inning last year. The big inning theory goes way back though. Bonderman's ERA has not matched his peripherals for 5 years. One reason I've heard literally hundreds of times over the past few years on blog comments and messageboards is that he has melt downs and gives up a lot of big innings. The data do not show that thisLee Panashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17148118898954670307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17907776.post-13294722483563851012008-03-11T14:10:00.000-04:002008-03-11T14:10:00.000-04:00I agree they're interesting stats, but as I read t...I agree they're interesting stats, but as I read them, you've absolutely confirmed that in 2007, Bonderman was plagued by giving up too many runs in the first inning, often in bunches. Well there it is, right in your numbers.<BR/><BR/>I don't remember this being much of an issue before 2007 -- people weren't talking about it. It was sort of a mysterious development for a veteran pitcher.<BR/><BR/scot s whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08947031962111227317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17907776.post-18370226538496667682008-03-11T12:20:00.000-04:002008-03-11T12:20:00.000-04:00Joe, the first inning problem was very real in 200...Joe, the first inning problem was very real in 2005 and 2007. Other years it wasn't. I wouldn't say that Bonderman doesn't have any problem with big innings. It just isn't a problem that is unique to him. <BR/><BR/>I agree looking how hits and walks are bunched together would be a good next step in the analysis.Lee Panashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17148118898954670307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17907776.post-47463546012704612932008-03-11T11:44:00.000-04:002008-03-11T11:44:00.000-04:00Lee, this is great content. I wonder if the fans'...Lee, this is great content. I wonder if the fans' conception of Bondo's big/1st inning problems are compounded by hits/walks etc. Maybe his pitch count is higher in the big/1st inning?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17907776.post-82127611753859396052008-03-11T00:38:00.000-04:002008-03-11T00:38:00.000-04:00ez, I checked it. It makes somewhat of a differen...ez, I checked it. It makes somewhat of a difference in 2003 and 2007 if I use 3+ runs rather than 2+ runs. Your definition makes him worse in those years. However, he is still around league average or better in 2004-2006. It was a good question though.Lee Panashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17148118898954670307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17907776.post-87574912219465939912008-03-10T17:00:00.000-04:002008-03-10T17:00:00.000-04:00My definition of big inning does include 3 and 4 r...My definition of big inning does include 3 and 4 run innings. It is 2 runs or more in an inning. I will try changing the definition to 3+ runs in an inning and see how it comes out. Since the last column says that he gave up a smaller proportion of runs in big innings than league average, I'm skeptical that the new definition will change the conclusion though.<BR/><BR/>LeeLee Panashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17148118898954670307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17907776.post-76159694165151722262008-03-10T16:05:00.000-04:002008-03-10T16:05:00.000-04:00Lee,Interesting research. Though I am inclined to ...Lee,<BR/><BR/>Interesting research. Though I am inclined to take issue with 2 runs being a "big inning". A pitcher can give up two and remain in the game. Given the Tiger's offense over the last two years (not to mention their O this year) a pitcher giving up two runs has a shot to stay in the game if he can battle it out. I think a more representative definition of "big inning" would be to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17907776.post-49260871455774587192008-03-07T00:47:00.001-05:002008-03-07T00:47:00.001-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Lee Panashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17148118898954670307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17907776.post-51242017217112900772008-03-07T00:47:00.000-05:002008-03-07T00:47:00.000-05:00Mark, I think I would conclude the opposite of wha...Mark, I think I would conclude the opposite of what you are saying. He is being compared to the best pitchers and he does not give up more big innings than those guys. If you include the guys who are not good enough to pitch 150 innings, it will just make him look better. <BR/><BR/>As for whether he should be pitching for the Tigers, his progress has been frustrating but he's still 25 and I'm Lee Panashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17148118898954670307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17907776.post-35040794892514577092008-03-07T00:10:00.000-05:002008-03-07T00:10:00.000-05:00would it be fair to qualify your conclusion by say...would it be fair to qualify your conclusion by saying that it is compared against other starters good enough to hold their jobs long enough to throw 150 or more innings. there are a lot of SP's whose inability to stay away from big innings leads to them not being given 150+ innings in a year. and since the follow up to the premise of Bondo's big innings skewing his results vs. his perepherals Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362872997351071937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17907776.post-21864626614021182562008-03-06T09:15:00.000-05:002008-03-06T09:15:00.000-05:00Very interesting stats, my thoughts were it was th...Very interesting stats, my thoughts were it was the big inning problem too and that really isn't the case.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15891249984751270498noreply@blogger.com